Whitney (00:00)

There’s something magical that happens whenever a person finds a way to pursue their passion through their work, right? It’s a different energy that they bring to the world and to what they’re doing. And that’s exactly what we have with today’s guests. Nikki Soda is an advocate who is ensuring that everyone knows that their voice can make a difference, that their actions can make a difference whether it’s in the form of attending the National Hill Day that she created while at the National Association for Addiction Treatment Providers, or through community events and community organizations. Let’s just all recognize that we have a role to play, that we can play a role, and let’s get started.

Whitney (00:55)

Hello and welcome to Reduce the Stigma of Recovery Conversations. Today I’m talking with Nikki Soda, the Executive Director of Soda’s Consulting. Nikki’s passionate about advocacy and public policy. She actively engages in local and national initiatives to make a meaningful impact. Utilizing her addiction policy knowledge to help treatment centers get involved in public policy, and she was recently serving as the Director of Membership in State Advocacy for the National Association of Addiction Treatment Providers, where she leveraged and consulted her expertise to lead productive discussions with industry leaders and conducted comprehensive tours of treatment centers nationwide. Through all these experiences, Nikki has gained a profound understanding of the substance use disorder treatment landscape and I’m honored to have Nikki, thank you for joining me today. I’m so honored to have you on.

Nikki Soda (01:51)

I’m so glad to be here. Thank you for asking and I’ve really enjoyed listening to some of the past shows. So I’m looking forward to a fruitful conversation.

Whitney (01:59)

Thank you, that means a great deal. And I had the pleasure of connecting with you a little over a year ago through your role at NAATP. And I was excited when I saw you taking a transition in your career and moving into this consulting role, as well as some other things that I know you have going on. And I’d love to just start with this recent kind of transformation for you. What led you to kind of move into this space?

Nikki Soda (02:31)

Yeah, so very good question. I was with NATAP, which stands for the National Association of Addiction Treatment Providers for five and a half years and had an absolutely wonderful, profound working experience working for a national association where I was able to work with a stellar team and get to meet people all over the country, visited well over 100 treatment centers and got to sit down and talk to the executive leadership teams to CEOs, to behavioral health techs, to nurses. And so really got a feel for the ends and the understanding of what goes on in a treatment center and the good and the bad and be able to connect people. So with that job, Whitney came a really good understanding of treatment. I am a person with lived experience. I celebrated 20 years this year. And so having that understanding of what the other side and being a product of residential treatment myself gave me a good knowledge and background for that. What happened is in 2019, I was asked to help lead a national Hill Day. And when I was in DC helping to co -chair with Sherry Layton, who is one of my mentors and just a badass all around policy guru from La Hacienda in Texas. When I was there, a passion ignited in and why we were advocating for a couple different behavioral health care issues on the Hill. It really started turning like this is something that I want to do. This is something that I think I’m decent at. And so what that led me to do was to decide to go back and get my master’s in addiction policy. And so I went to Georgetown where they’ve created a new program from a former director of the Office of National Drug Control Policy. Regina LaBelle is the director of it. This program specifically works with addiction policy. So I went back and I graduated last May. The National Association allowed me the opportunity to create state advocacy groups. And so while my work there, so I received my master’s working on a state advocacy group. And I just wanted to be able to do a little bit more from the advocacy realm. And so we parted ways in December. I loved the team so much there. what I did is I’ve created, so does consulting. And so, well, it was actually already created. But what my goal, Whitney, is to go and help treatment centers bridge treatment with state and federal public policy, and also with their own community leaders. So city council, the mayor, and be able to provide them with the tools to successfully build program to be able to have that liaison between public policy that’s specifically going to impact them. that is right now I have the privilege I’m consulting for High Watch Recovery and Alina Lodge and then doing some other work with some other nonprofits as well but those are the two treatment centers right

Whitney (05:40)

That is a fascinating role to play because I just think about how siloed our system has been historically. The treatment providers in one area, the policy makers in another, the people who are the patients, the clients, and in a whole other area. And you’re really bridging and bringing it to be a cohesive approach to behavioral health, to effective programming and I think that’s just such an area that we haven’t really seen, at least not that I’m very aware

Nikki Soda (06:13)

Yeah, it’s really not. mean, addiction policy has been around for a very, very long time. But one of the things is that there’s not a whole lot of us that are out there pounding the pavement. It’s a more silent group behind the scenes. And so you’re exactly right. There’s a lot of people that haven’t heard it. And unless you are heavily involved with the political landscape or with the public policy landscape, you wouldn’t. So now, you’re most certainly in the majority. One of the things that I want to do is bring it more to light, to let people know that anyone can be an advocate if you have the right tools to do it and the passion and the desire to make some positive change.

Whitney (06:58)

There is such a misunderstanding, as you said, as to who can be in the room, because historically, again, it hasn’t been the average person. We have lobbyists and things like that going and pushing for different ideas and policies. So what can you envision happening if we’re able to have more of these voices raised in part of the policy making and then the implementation as

Nikki Soda (07:31)

So I’m gonna start with saying I’m an eternal optimist. My ideas are pie in the sky. We can make shit happen. And I believe the more people that we have Whitney, the better. And so with that, going back to the Hill Day in 2019, we had a number of people that joined that had never had zero experience, had never done it before. And we had a combination of people with lived recovery experience.

Whitney (07:35)

Okay, all right, let’s go

Nikki Soda (08:01)

And we had people with academia experience and we had individuals who worked in a treatment center and who were just there to support. And so I say that because anyone can be an advocate. And it’s so important because the more that we have, the louder our voices are and the more that we are heard, right? And so if there is an issue that senators or representatives have not been aware the more people that we can get to write letters, to send emails, to make phone calls, to go and physically visit, the more likely we are to have change

Whitney (08:36)

I love the optimism because that is, if you don’t have that optimism, if you don’t have that belief that it could happen, you’re gonna burn out. And I’m gonna speak from the devil’s advocate perspective, right? Policy in this space in particular has been harmful. If we look at the war on drugs and criminalization of different things, sentencing, we have seen some really harmful impacts on the people who need to help the most. What, if anything, is different now than what occurred in the past?

Nikki Soda (09:12)

There is not, I think what it is, this is my personal opinion, is a lack of knowledge. So if we go back and we look at how incredibly hard it failed to have the war on drugs earlier, we have some people of certain parties that are trying to do these exact same things that failed miserably. And it’s like, please look at history so that we don’t repeat ourselves. But what we also have is some really good examples. Like, I don’t know if you’re familiar with what’s gone on in Portugal where they made a number of drugs legal. And what they did is they offered treatment for people who were caught using. And so some of those have tried to be implemented over here in the United States, some successfully, some not successfully. But I think one of the main things needs to be education. And that takes time and that the education incarceration is not always the best answer. And so I think it has to be a balance to Whitney, again, just my personal opinion of having consequences, but also understanding that there are people who don’t know any better and have fallen upon extremely hard times and being able to offer viable resources to those people as opposed to just throwing them in jail and expecting them to heal magically.

Whitney (10:38)

Right, right. We have continued the same approach for decades and it has not gotten better if anything in ways it’s gotten worse are, you know, we can go into some debate about, you know, the death rate right now and the fact that there’s a little bit more attention to it now than in the past because of, you know, certain populations affected. And I think that is part of, you know, the opportunity for raising voices, but also from my own perspective, a fear. We see opioid settlement funds and how are they being utilized and who’s being part of the decision making. I know in Pennsylvania, there’s a lot of money going to police officers as far as funding for them. And while, yes, they’ve been impacted, the trauma they have seen by responding to numerous overdoses, I, as a Pennsylvanian, am wondering why there and not two different programs. And so

Nikki Soda (11:35)

Thank

Whitney (11:36)

You know, here we are with this large opportunity. How do we not replicate those mistakes of the past?

Nikki Soda (11:42)

Right. And how do we not replicate what happened with the tobacco settlement? Because that is a very prime example of that money, of that settlement money being very mismanaged through a number of states. And unfortunately, we’re seeing that happening again. And it’s just one of those things that makes you hit your head. Please just read a little bit about what happened and what was successful and what wasn’t.

Whitney (11:47)

Yes. Yes.

Nikki Soda (12:09)

But you’re right. And it’s different in every state. And I’ve had a little opportunity. I’ve been fortunate. I live in Palm Beach County, Florida. So I’ve been able to really have my hands kind of in the dirt, so to speak, for the opioid settlement money here. And it’s vastly different in Connecticut and it’s vastly different in New Jersey. And so it’s interesting. It’s very interesting how the task force are made up and how the money is being decided and what lack that people have

Whitney (12:38)

Right, which is where you come in and all of your experience you have the for like the treatment side you’ve been through your touring of different facilities, your lived experience, your academic training. Where then, so what do we need to do? What, what, like where do we

Nikki Soda (12:41)

Right. So a great example is here in Palm Beach County where we have the county itself has been the behavioral health portion of the county has been working diligently on a plan for the opioid settlement money of how it can most benefit the individuals that are struggling with substance use disorder or mental health issues. And so what we’ve had to do is there’s two proposals that are up for grabs, but where people can come to help is we’ve had some town hall meetings. Where we’ve invited the public to come and hear what the plan is. And that’s where everyone can have a voice and come and say, by showing up, by reading what’s sent out, which can sometimes be tough, I realize that. But that’s where, like, look to see where you can show up and where you can be a voice, because even in Pennsylvania, I would venture to guess that there’s opportunity for people to come and chime in, I would hope at least. And so that’s where you can look on this specific issue for coming

Whitney (14:02)

Right. There’s a little bit of a dynamic we know that certain demographics are going to be heard more. mean, even treatment providers. And there can be a question then even about ethics whenever a treatment provider is involved in policy, either policy advocacy or what have you. Do you have any thoughts on that ethical space for providers?

Nikki Soda (14:25)

I do. I, going back to my work with the national association, we had a very good vetting system for our members and we had a code of ethics that was required to be signed. and so it is, it is tricky sometimes when you are wanting to pull together a group. I have an example not too long ago where we were wanting to bring together different providers in the state to have a roundtable discussion. There had been examples of one treatment provider that had been proven to do some very unethical behavior. And so we’re like, well, how do we exclude them from being part of this round table discussion? Fortunately, they decided not to be part of it themselves, but that’s a very, very real part of, how do we be inclusive yet keep the bad guys out? And

Whitney (15:20)

Yeah.

Nikki Soda (15:21)

It is a very, very challenging task. And I think the best answer in the groups that I’ve been a part of that we’ve seen is to try to hold everyone accountable, which can be very tough if you’re dealing with a shady provider who has ulterior motives, which is usually what it is. They want to get the inside scoop. I just participated in an event in Maryland and we had a lot of recovery advocates that were invited. In this meeting, there were a couple of alleged patient brokers that were there in the room. And so my hope, Whitney, is that when you have the bad players that are in there, that they can at least hear and absorb some of what’s going on. And that, you know, we have to hope that goodness will prevail. And this is one of those eternally optimistics, because there’s not. There’s not a law that says we can just exclude them from it. So it is a very tricky balance. But the groups that I belong to down here in Florida do a very good job of vetting and ensuring that, all right, you have to agree that your facility is adhering to all of these ethical considerations and then it’s on your honor. Yeah, it’s tough.

Whitney (16:32)

Right, which is tough. even, you know, it’s not, I don’t want to make treatment providers sound bad, right? That is not my belief in it at all. There are bad players in every role, people with different motivations. And so it’s, it is important to think about who you’re supporting, getting, you know, even an advocacy, do you really understand what they’re advocating for? Because, you know, it can be very complex what’s being presented and then kind of twisted in a way to say, see this really nice kind of shiny thing? See, this is great. Don’t look at this other stuff over here. So someone who wants to get involved, who wants to start raising that voice, do you have any tips on what to look for when identifying a potential, you know, movement or organization

Nikki Soda (17:17)

Right.

Whitney (17:29)

Align with.

Nikki Soda (17:31)

Absolutely, and I’m gonna take one step back for a second though and when you were looking for ways to get involved so in South Florida for example We have something called stuff then which is the southeast Florida behavioral it’s a network advocacy group not network, but it’s an advocacy group and Maureen Killian is the head of it and she is a mom on a mission and She is so in the

Whitney (17:34)

Yes, please.

Nikki Soda (17:54)

And so she is one that is sending out alerts. so finding a tribe and finding a group like that is going to be very, very helpful, particularly in Pennsylvania. Not particularly in Pennsylvania, for example, finding a group like that where you have someone who’s got a pulse on what’s going on. and part of how I figured out that they were a good group. Maureen is a badass. Lisa Franklin is the co -leader of that. I went to a couple of their meetings,did a little Google background check, which isn’t necessarily the end all be all, but found out that they’re two fearless, just incredibly talented, dedicated advocates. And so I think doing a little bit of due diligence with treatment centers, Whitney, you can look and see if there’s been any pending lawsuits. You can also see if there’s any articles about fraudulent behavior for a number of treatment centers. When you’re getting in with an advocacy group, it’s important to know who you’re coming to the table with. And so doing your research and asking around too, asking some of your colleagues, hey, are you familiar with XYZ, people that you trust?

Whitney (19:04)

Yeah, yes, absolutely. And it just, I couldn’t help but think just even thinking about when you pick a treatment provider, know, these are things that you want to think about in all situations. And I think it’s just amazing the way that you’re approaching it, you’re identifying how to go about it in a way that the voices are raised in an ethical manner. And there’s just so much opportunity there and you know you’ve shared your pie in the sky, I shared my brief pie in the sky, it can be really hard being in advocacy. Do you have any thoughts on you know how to approach advocacy in a way that you don’t burn out before like quickly before you can make an

Nikki Soda (19:54)

For sure. So a couple of things. Find something that you’re really passionate about. So if you are really passionate about, you know, reproductive rights, or if you are really passionate about gun control, find something that you are passionate about. For me, it is addiction. It is being able to advocate for those in recovery who don’t necessarily have a voice for themselves. And it is also, I feel very passionate about ensuring that residential treatment stays around for a long It’s a very good option. It saved my life and I want to ensure it stays around for a long time. So finding something that you’re passionate about would be one. Second, don’t make it your full -time job unless you are all in and fully vested is gonna prevent burnout. Two or three, I think it’s important and I’ve seen this in some of my friends who’ve been burnt out that you have to be able to separate yourself from what you’re advocating for. I know this is a lot harder and it’s way easier for me to say this from a distance, like I’ve seen some moms whose, you know, children have passed away from overdose and it’s all consuming. And I think that it’s important. And again, this is easier for me to say, but it’s important to have a little bit of disconnect from what you are breathing in and out every day and working and advocating for that you have other things that you are doing too and other passions that you work on, think that that is gonna help. And then last but not least, understanding that it’s a marathon and not a sprint. And so there is not instant results that are gonna happen from this. And so patience is essential and understanding that when you get in that this is not something that happens so quick is gonna help to alleviate burnout or disappointment.

Whitney (21:40)

Right, right. So the person has decided, all right, I’m going to get involved. I am thinking about how to go about it in a way that I can last the marathon. What impact does advocacy have? What can it even

Nikki Soda (21:57)

So much. Advocacy can… There are so many policies, so many safety regulations that are in place now for the benefit to keep us safe that are due through advocacy. I’m going to try to think of an example off the top of my head. okay. I have a great one. So I told you I live in South Florida. South Florida was unfortunately well -known, became well -known for patient and patient brokering for those who aren’t familiar with it are when a very shady or unscrupulous person decides, finds someone who needs, who’s in need of recovery and takes that person and literally sells them to a recovery residence or a treatment center. And by selling them means getting money for turning them in. And Whitney in South Florida, became unfortunately very well known for it. And the Sober Homes Task Force was put together in 2018. And this task force was composed of different community members. So it was put together by Dave Ehrenberg, who is our state attorney. it did have police officers, it had attorneys, it had treatment providers, it had mom advocates, it had recovery residences as part of this group. And what they did was they created legislation that made patient brokering illegal and it made deep fines and jail time for it. And so what came of this is there was also a hotline that was created. So if you were witnessing patient brokering going on, you’d call this hotline. They’ve had over a hundred people arrested because of this bill that was passed. So that’s one example of people, of advocates saying, we have had enough of this, we have to do something and being loud enough, beating the drum loud enough that there was action that was taken. So from the task force of community leaders, the legislation was written, created and passed. And so that’s a really good example of something that was able to curtail something really bad that happened. So that’s one of many examples. There’s been marketing legislation that’s passed too because of very fraudulent marketing that’s put out and so there’s been stops to that. And then also there’s been really good patient safety regulations that have been passed because of, we’ll look at mental health, for example. There was some just absolutely heartbreaking mental health institutions that were just deplorable. And so there was parents of children who had gone into these homes and there was an undercover reporter who went up to one in New York and saw absolutely deplorable conditions. And so they made a news expose on it. And very shortly after that, it was shut down. The owners of that treatment home were prosecuted and those patients were dispersed into other places. And so there’s so many examples of what advocacy can do for the better. That’s why it’s so important. And I also want to encourage that anyone can do it. And so it can be so overwhelming, but there’s toolkits out there and it takes one person to believe in something to be able to make a change.

Whitney (25:19)

I’m inspired. The passion you have for this work is so clear that it’s making me think, my gosh, what can I be doing more?

Nikki Soda (25:31)

And I’m gonna look up some Pennsylvania advocacy groups for you, so know that.

Whitney (25:34)

Thank you. you know, and I think it’s just, and I’ll speak for myself, you know, there’s also a privilege with whether or not you get involved in advocacy because, you know, I can say I’m not gonna go and exert myself in that way because it’s not affecting me directly right now. And I think we have to think about that because It can’t just be the people that are being incarcerated or who are being denied treatment. It has to be those of us who are not being impacted today. Whether we have a history of experiences where we were impacted or what, it’s going to take all of us getting involved and raising up the voices of those who have been impacted, right? Because they should be involved. But also, it can’t just be on the individuals who are suffering right now. So hopefully like everyone is hearing this and seeing that it can be anyone. Because I think that’s also part of it. Well, it doesn’t affect me. So why should I get involved?

Nikki Soda (26:35)

No. Exactly. Exactly. And, you know, I think you almost have to live under a rock right now, though, to not have some type of impact from something. And

Whitney (26:55)

Yes.

Nikki Soda (26:58)

Not saying that everyone needs to be going up and making appointments with their senators and representatives, but there’s a number of little things you can do, whether it’s signing a petition, even, you know, can make a difference, whether it’s sending an email to your senator representative about something that you’re passionate about. So there’s a number of little things that anyone can do. There’s things my 12 year old daughter could do for, you know, she loves cats and dogs. And so there’s all sorts of things that anyone can but it does take a willingness, it takes time, and those are two things that not everybody is willing to do.

Whitney (27:36)

Right, Yeah, it is definitely a commitment. But it can be also a small thing, right? It is signing that petition, right? So maybe we just need to be open to recognizing even some of the small steps we can take. And then those of us who are, or those like you who are so energized by the idea of doing this to be

Nikki Soda (27:46)

Totally signature.

Whitney (28:04)

The charge, right, to lead the charge. And then those of us who maybe are not yet ready or what have you, or don’t have the capacity for any reason, okay, what can I do.

Nikki Soda (28:16)

Yeah, you know, and I will share this example too. So last night I participated in a webinar and they had a list of action steps. Like the first one was let’s roll up our sleeves and then it had a list of action steps. And it was everything from big things to one of them was click on this button. We will send you 10 postcards already stamped. If you can just write a note on them and then stick them in your mailbox. And so like anyone can do that, right?

Whitney (28:40)

Yeah. Yeah.

Nikki Soda (28:43)

So there really is, you just have to kind of know where to look, which I do understand that that can sometimes be challenging, but there’s something for everyone.

Whitney (28:51)

Absolutely. So if someone wanted to get started, what would be, and let’s focus on the mental health, substance use, behavioral health space. What would be their first steps that they could take? It could be Googling a certain term? What, like down to the simplest thing that they could start with.

Nikki Soda (29:15)

So there’s a couple really good advocacy groups in the mental health and substance use disorder space. So Faces and Voices of Recovery is one, their acronym is FAVOR, and they have an advocacy section on their website. And so they have some really good steps on there. And then the National Council of Mental Well -being. And they have a litany of tools on their website, Whitney. They have free webinars that you can go back and look at. They have a kick -ass advocacy toolkit. And Natap does too. Natap has an advocacy tab where you don’t have to be a member and you can look at some of the past webinars that we put together. A toolkit that I helped put together is on the Natap website too. So if we have a way to put those in the notes or the transcript for this, we can put links to those. But

Whitney (30:05)

Yes, absolutely.

Nikki Soda (30:10)

Those are three very good ones. Trying to think of those are the ones off the top of my head that provide webinars and advocacy tool kits. And so those are a good place to start. ASAM, I’m sorry, I’m gonna say one more. ASAM, which is the American Society of Addiction Medicine. Kelly Cordair is their head public policy and they have a number of really good.

Whitney (30:23)

And

Nikki Soda (30:37)

Now, theirs is a little more medically inclined, but they have a number of really good policy tools.

Whitney (30:45)

wonderful

And so you mentioned education a lot. I know that’s very significant. Is there any other types of education that someone should pursue as they are kind of getting into the space of advocacy within behavioral health?

Nikki Soda (30:58)

Yeah, so that’s another really good question. I did kind of an extreme by going to get my master’s in specifically addiction policy, but I am going to promote that program. It’s at Georgetown. It’s a year-long program in person that’s there, that’s taught by the creme de la creme of addiction professionals in DC. And it’s run by Regina LaBelle and Shelly Wiseman. And I learned more in that year than I had in 10 years in the field and that was in regard to policy. So that was very beneficial. But there’s also all sorts of courses that are online that come from some of those groups that I mentioned before. SAMHSA, I know I’m throwing out all sorts of acronyms, is another one that does a number of policies. And Ryan Hampton runs a Mobilize Recovery. And so they do a number of different advocacy and he…does, he has a conference every year, Mobilize Recovery in September, and they bring together peer recovery specialists, just individuals with lived experience, and give them all the teaching tools that they need to become advocates. So that would be a very good education opportunity

Whitney (32:10)

Wonderful. So many great resources and we will make sure we share all of them in the show notes. But then also, let’s talk about how people can connect with you. Maybe they’re an organization that wants to get involved. How would they do

Nikki Soda (32:26)

Yeah, so thank you for that question. With SODA Consulting, so I am working with different treatment centers, as I mentioned, to provide tools for them. So whether or not it’s meeting with your team and figuring out what the needs are, and then being able to bridge that gap of connecting, all right, are these state issues or are these federal issues or do you not know? And we can sit and figure that out. And so that’s something that I’m really passionate about and want to help more with and in DC quite a bit. And so it’s nice to be able to work with the different treatment centers and have a foot in DC as well. You know, one of the things that we haven’t mentioned is that I am co -president of the board of TPAS, which is treatment professionals in alumni services. And so with TPAS too, I didn’t want to mess that up.

Whitney (33:08)

Bright.

Nikki Soda (33:17)

Support services for alumni services. And alumni services, I’m a very stout advocate of the treatment center that I went to. And so that drives for me a passion to want to advocate for alumni. so alumni has grown to be a critical component of addiction treatment and primary mental health programs. TPAS offers all sorts of wonderful tools and resources to be able to help treatment centers and mental health programs provide their alumni directors and coordinators with the tools to be successful for that. So I’ve been on the board for a number of years, recently became the co -president, but we’re working with a number of different advocacy components too with alumni groups. so TPAS is the name of that organization. So that’s another way to become involved or if you have a treatment center to get them.

Whitney (34:08)

That’s great. And I may have to ask you to come back on so we can dive into the world of alumni in the recovery space. Yes.

Nikki Soda (34:14)

It was, my second passion. Well, it’s another passion, let’s say that.

Whitney (34:19)

Well, and you know, before I ask you my final question, I’m going to share what I have really like. I just have my own kind of thoughts here, because I’m always asking what should someone take away? And what I really what resonated with me, not only what you know, the fact that anyone can get involved in this, but what you just said about talking with the team and saying, okay, what is this a state level? Is this a federal level? The treatment provider in the room is saying, this doesn’t make sense. This regulation is harmful and I didn’t know what to do. And I just love that anyone who’s experiencing that can reach out to you and you will be able to work with them to help them take action and make that impact because it’s going to be the people who are hitting the barriers, both the individuals going through treatment as well as the treatment providers who are going to know, that requirement that you get a pre -authorization, blah, blah, blah, blah, that’s harmful. That’s causing deaths. If you are in that position, reach out to Nikki. Like that is amazing. I wish I would have like had that resource whenever I was in those treatment providers or offices.

Nikki Soda (35:20)

Thanks. Yeah, thank you. Well, and I by no means have the answers, but what I do have is a large network of people that do. And so being able to, I had a colleague who shared the term people connector and I love that. And so I can most certainly, most certainly do

Whitney (35:44)

Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Absolutely, and it’s gonna take all of us. So yes, let’s pull in, okay, this person knows this, this person knows that, and then we get things going. I’m energized. So I shared my big takeaway. Let me ask you, if people can only walk away with one thing from this conversation, and I hope they take away more than that, what would you like it to

Nikki Soda (36:05)

Yeah, good. Every single person, no matter your experience, no matter your status, no matter where you are in life, can be an advocate and find what you’re passionate about or find what is impacting your life and don’t be afraid to speak up and do something about it. That would be my… Yeah.

Whitney (36:38)

Great message. All right, everyone, you heard her. And, you know, I always encourage everyone to share the episodes, but I’m going to make that an even bigger emphasis. Even if you never share another episode, which please don’t do that, but this is a way to do advocacy is to share the message. If this resonated with you, if you’re like, wow, I understand now.

Nikki Soda (36:54)

Thank you.

Whitney (37:05)

Share this with someone else because it may resonate with them. It may be, wow, that T -pass, I can get involved in that or whatever resource. So let’s do this. Let’s keep getting this information out there, everyone. Nikki. Yes.

Nikki Soda (37:17)

Yeah, we’ll get it. They are a huge group that’s going to advocate on the hill before too long. I do want to create recovery hill days in every single state where we have tons of people that are of all different kinds of lived experience that are going up to the capitals in each state. So that is that is a goal.

Whitney (37:23)

That would be amazing. I can’t wait to see it happen because I’m sure it will and I am going to be a fan and whenever it’s Pennsylvania, I will be there. Yeah. I will happily drive down the interstate to Harrisburg. So you let me know when and I’ll be there. But just thank you so much, Nikki, for not only taking time to speak with me today, but just, you know, using your experience personally, professionally, your knowledge and

Nikki Soda (37:46)

We’ll do it in Pennsylvania. Thanks.

Whitney (38:08)

Passion and making things happen. Thank you so much.

Nikki Soda (38:12)

No, absolutely. It’s an honor to be on your show, Whitney. Thank you for working on reducing the stigma and it’s making a big difference. And so you are a change maker and you know, we talk about people doing it in different ways and you being able to bring people and give them a pulpit to talk to is a change agent. So thank you for the work you’re doing.

Whitney (38:33)

Thank you so much. We’ll just all keep doing our little part and we’ll make a big impact. Great. Thank you everyone for listening.

Nikki Soda (38:37)

Right. Awesome.